TERRY GROSS, HOST:
That is FRESH AIR. I am Terry Gross. Right now we proceed our archive sequence R&B, rockabilly and early rock ‘n’ roll with the late R&B singer Ruth Brown. She was one in every of Atlantic Data’ first hitmakers. Within the ’50s, she was their most prolific and bestselling performer. She recorded over 80 songs for the label between 1949 and ’62. She later sued the label for royalties. Her best-known data embody “Teardrops From My Eyes,” “5-10-15 Hours,” “(Mama) He Treats Your Daughter Imply” and “Fortunate Lips.”
Ruth Brown made a comeback within the ’80s when she starred within the Broadway revue “Black And Blue,” for which she received a Tony Award. She additionally co-starred in John Waters’ 1988 movie “Hairspray” as Motormouth Maybelle. In 1993, Brown was inducted into the Rock & Roll Corridor of Fame. She died in 2006. She was 78. I spoke along with her in 1997. Let’s begin along with her 1953 recording of “(Mama) He Treats Your Daughter Imply,” a music she initially did not wish to report, however it went on to turn out to be one in every of her largest hits.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “(MAMA) HE TREATS YOUR DAUGHTER MEAN”)
RUTH BROWN: (Singing) Mama, he treats your daughter imply. Mama, he treats your daughter imply. Mama, he treats your daughter imply. He is the meanest man I’ve ever seen. Mama, he treats me badly, makes me love him madly. Mama, he takes my cash, makes me name him honey. Mama, he cannot be trusted, makes me so disgusted. All of my associates say they do not perceive what is the matter with this man. I let you know, Mama, he treats your daughter imply.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: You began singing in church. What was the church, and what was the music?
BROWN: Properly, that was the rule, you already know. My dad and coming from a Southern household – I do not know. I would not say that as a result of it was a Southern household that was the norm, however I feel that virtually any R&B artist and most of us of my ethnic persuasion began singing within the church. If certainly in any respect you probably did have any type of a expertise, the understanding was it was one thing that was God-given, and also you needed to give that again. And so my father insisted that if I did not sing within the church, I used to be not going to sing in any respect, you already know? After which there have been these churchgoing individuals who, for regardless of the purpose, stated that what we had been attempting to do outdoors the church was the satan’s music, you already know?
GROSS: Which you preferred so much, proper?
BROWN: So the satan obtained credit score for lots of excellent stuff. I let you know, he did.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Yeah.
GROSS: So what sort of singing did you do in church?
BROWN: Properly, I used to be kind of twisted between – my father’s church was Methodist, they usually have kind of simply flat-footed, inspirational spirituals I name it. I imply, individuals simply did not leap up and down and shout and present their pleasure within the Methodist church. However now, alternatively, in the summertime once I went to North Carolina – which is the place my mom’s individuals had been – to work in sharecrop within the fields in the summertime, we went to a Baptist church, and it was completely completely different. It was so joyous. And on the opposite facet, if it wasn’t joyous, it was so miserable. You recognize, there have been songs like, sit down, sinner. You higher sit down. Sit down, sinner. You higher sit down. You ain’t going to heaven, so that you higher sit down. If that did not take your spirit away…
GROSS: (Laughter).
BROWN: …Nothing did, you already know? After which alternatively, you had, I obtained footwear, and you bought shoe. All God’s youngsters obtained footwear. After I get to heaven, going to placed on my footwear, dance throughout God’s heaven.
GROSS: One other publicity to music you had was while you had been in North Carolina for the summers, working within the cotton fields.
BROWN: Yeah.
GROSS: Lots of people sang and shouted there. Sing me a number of the stuff you heard within the cotton fields.
BROWN: Oh, my goodness. “Typically I Really feel Like A Motherless Baby” and “Oh, Lord, Have Mercy On Me.”
(Singing) Oh, Lord, have mercy on me. Oh, Lord, have mercy. Have mercy on me. When the world’s on hearth, when the world’s on hearth, when the world’s on hearth, Lord, have mercy, mercy on me.
After which there was, like, (singing) this little mild of mine, I will let it shine. This little mild of mine, I will let it shine. This little mild of mine, I will let it shine, let it shine, let it shine, let it shine.
GROSS: Did you sing your self while you had been working within the fields?
BROWN: Oh, sometimes. However I feel that by that point, I had began to hear on the radios again in Virginia and listen to some issues that I needed to actually get into musically. After all, I used to be uncovered, to begin with, to nation and western earlier than the rest, you already know? After which after nation and western, the warfare years, I listened to, like, the Andrews Sisters and Bing Crosby and Vaughn Monroe.
GROSS: That is on the radio?
BROWN: Oh, that is radio. Oh, yeah. Properly, radio’s all the time been the middleman, you already know, and one factor about radio was that it was one of many causes that rhythm and blues, as I knew it, finally changed into rock ‘n’ roll. There needed to be a change as a result of what the children had been listening to – that they had the privilege of turning that dial, listening to no matter they needed to hearken to with out seeing the colour of your pores and skin or who you had been or what you regarded like. They usually had been dancing to the music.
Identical to in lots of different issues, this needed to make some modifications as a result of now it was going to be one thing that was uncovered. Individuals had been dancing, regardless that that they had ropes down within the middle of the barnyards and all. After I performed the dances, the ropes fell down plenty of occasions, and the white children and Black children danced collectively. No one stated a factor about it till some huge official, a sheriff or one thing, would come up and say, cease the music and put the ropes again in place. So the music itself had already began to turn out to be the frequent denominator, you already know? I’ve seen – lengthy earlier than Physician King and everyone began their marches and protests, which finally we knew would occur. However I’ve seen the music be so efficient very long time earlier than that.
GROSS: We’re listening again to my 1997 interview with Ruth Brown. We’ll hear extra of it after a break. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF RAY CHARLES’ “THE RAY”)
GROSS: That is FRESH AIR. Let’s get again to my 1997 interview with rhythm and blues singer Ruth Brown. She was one in every of Atlantic Data’ first hitmakers. She recorded over 80 songs for the label between 1949 and ’62.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: Ruth Brown, you began your singing profession singing at USO golf equipment.
BROWN: Sure.
GROSS: Was this throughout World Conflict II or after?
BROWN: Properly, it was between 1941 and 1945, you already know, which was – Pearl Harbor was December 7, 1941. And these had been the warfare years.
GROSS: Properly, you had been a young person. You had been…
BROWN: I used to be, certainly.
GROSS: You had been in your early teenagers throughout a part of this.
BROWN: Certainly, I used to be.
GROSS: So what was it like for you as a younger teenager to be singing for troopers?
BROWN: Properly, to let you know the reality, I kind of snuck in to sing with the troopers. My dad did not comprehend it at first. As a result of I had gotten a job working on the USO, working behind the soda fountain. And so I used to be allowed to enter the USO as a result of I had a part-time job in there, so everyone thought. However my primary causes was to get in and work and sing with that little USO present that was rehearsing there very often. And I used to be imagined to been in choir follow, and my dad walked in a single evening unannounced, and I used to be up on stage. I always remember, I used to be singing “Chattanooga Choo Choo” (laughter).
And I let you know, my dad, he simply did not need to say a phrase. He had a glance about him, you already know? And there was one thing in his stride, you already know, when he walked. And all he did was stroll to the sting of the stage and look straight up at me and beckoned. You recognize, he did not open his mouth. All he did was come to the sting of the stage, beckon and level, like, along with his finger and say, come on down, you already know? And also you knew what he meant, and also you knew what to anticipate while you obtained down off of that stage.
I met the drive (laughter). Might the drive be with you. The drive was with me, even then once I got here down as a result of my dad did not even anticipate me to get outdoors the constructing. He determined that if I had ignored him, then he was going to make what I had accomplished public. And he gave me my whipping proper there in public, you already know? Course, that did not cease me. I saved sneaking round attempting to sing with these exhibits and did fairly a couple of of them.
GROSS: You say in some unspecified time in the future that you simply realized that you could possibly earn more money singing two nights per week than your father may make working a full week.
BROWN: That is proper.
GROSS: And I am questioning, as a woman, what affect that realization had on you?
BROWN: Properly, it was actually essential as a result of I used to be the oldest of eight youngsters. Because the oldest, I used to be the primary one which needed to go to work. My dad was a dockhand and a laborer. And I do know that he made as much as 35 bucks per week, which was huge cash for him. However once I went out and sang and earned $35 in a single evening, I knew that one thing right here was unsuitable, you already know? One thing was undoubtedly unsuitable.
And I am certain that had it not been for the truth that he was a younger father with all these youngsters, if the chance had offered itself, he very probably may’ve been a terrific singer as a result of he had an exquisite baritone voice. And I look again on all of that, I understand, he was very – in all probability very annoyed typically as a result of he noticed in me lots of what may’ve very probably occurred for him, you see?
GROSS: You received one of many beginner nights on the Apollo…
BROWN: Sure.
GROSS: …Periods, and I suppose it was the late Forties.
BROWN: Sure.
GROSS: After which, in – oh, it should’ve been 1948 or ’49, Atlantic Data needed to signal you. They usually had been going to deliver you up North once more, this time for a paid date on the Apollo.
BROWN: Sure.
GROSS: What occurred to you while you had been driving up North to play the Apollo?
BROWN: I keep in mind it nicely. Outdoors of Chester, Pennsylvania, I am nonetheless undecided what occurred. Possibly the gentleman driving may’ve gone to sleep on the wheel. I do not know. All I do know is that I heard a – I keep in mind a screeching of tires, and I keep in mind a crash, you already know? And I keep in mind then lastly listening to anyone say, the woman within the again is useless. And that – they had been speaking about me. And eventually, once they got here to maneuver me, once they went to straighten my leg, my left leg had been damaged three or 4 locations and was again up below my physique. They tried to straighten me out to choose me up, and that is once I screamed. They usually realized that I used to be certainly not useless, simply in a state of shock. However I…
GROSS: You had been unable to speak till then?
BROWN: Sure, I could not communicate. However I did find yourself in Chester hospital and was there for 11 months and one thing. In truth, my contract with Atlantic was signed whereas I used to be a affected person within the hospital. They came to visit for my twentieth birthday and introduced the contracts, and I signed them on my mattress within the hospital there at Chester. And once I lastly did get out of the hospital, they introduced me to Philadelphia. And I stayed up in north Philadelphia on Butler Road with Cab Calloway’s sister, Blanche Calloway.
GROSS: Properly, I suppose this brings us to your first report made in 1949…
BROWN: Sure.
GROSS: …For Atlantic Data.
BROWN: Sure.
GROSS: It was referred to as “So Lengthy.”
BROWN: Sure, ma’am.
GROSS: Inform us about your reminiscences of this primary recording session.
BROWN: I keep in mind going within the studio on crutches to do that tune. And, in reality, it was not my report session in any respect. Atlantic was, at the moment, recording a bit of music with Eddie Condon. It was Eddie Condon, Sid Catlett, Bobby Hackett, Joe Bushkin, Ernie Caceres, you title them. The good musicians had been there. They usually had been doing one thing referred to as cavalcade of music. I do not know if it was Herb or Ahmet who had the brilliant concept…
GROSS: From Atlantic Data?
BROWN: Sure – the brilliant concept to incorporate me on one of many tracks in there simply to kind of get me – you already know, they discovered this chance that they might put me on this album with Eddie Condon, which they did, however not considering that the one that that they had me on was going to take off the way in which it did. And that was the very first tune that I would recorded, a tune referred to as “So Lengthy” that I would heard a younger singer years again once I was nonetheless in Virginia referred to as Little Miss Cornshucks. She had accomplished this tune, and I used to listen to it by her. Her actual title was Mildred Cunningham (ph).
One of the vital fascinating little artists I’ve ever seen. She used to take a seat on the facet of the stage along with her legs hanging over, with a straw hat and naked ft and a straw basket. And they’d put one little mild on her, and she or he’d sit there and sing this music “So Lengthy.” And folks would stroll up and put cash in that basket. I’ve by no means seen something like her since that point, excluding perhaps Judy Garland, who sat on the facet of the stage and sang “Over The Rainbow.” However I noticed Little Miss Cornshucks sitting on the facet of the stage lengthy earlier than I noticed that, you already know? However that is the place I obtained the music.
GROSS: Properly, Ruth Brown, let’s hearken to your model, your first recording, 1949, of “So Lengthy.”
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “SO LONG”)
BROWN: (Singing) So lengthy. Hope we’ll meet once more sometime. Hope that perhaps then you definitely’ll say, darling, I used to be unsuitable. So lengthy. Gee, I hate to see you go. You are the world to me, you already know? You have been mine so lengthy.
GROSS: That is Ruth Brown, her first recording made in 1949. Ruth Brown, this recording made the rhythm and blues charts. However your subsequent few data did not do as nicely. Was it arduous so that you can discover the fitting materials?
BROWN: Sure, it was in a means. However as I stated, I did not have that a lot to do about it. And I feel that one of many issues that made the distinction was that once I went with Atlantic Data, I used to be the primary feminine on that label. And I consequently had a chance to listen to all the good materials when it got here. They usually had lots of fantastic workers writers over there, you already know, like Rudy Toombs and Tony Orlando and Bobby Darin and Neil Sedaka and Otis Blackwell and Leiber and Stoller, all these younger males who had been writers and bringing materials.
However so long as I used to be with Atlantic, in these early years – they usually had not turn out to be as huge a label – however once they began to fill out with different performers and their roster obtained so huge, I wasn’t the one to see the great materials on a regular basis. You recognize, there have been lots of methods for it to be unfold round. And I feel that someplace, that is the place I felt as if we kind of misplaced monitor of one another, ‘trigger I did not get a number of the good materials once more.
After which as soon as once more, the report firm had turn out to be so huge and was constantly changing into larger. They’d individuals now like Ray Charles and the Clovers and the Drifters. They usually had – who else? – Roberta Flack and Aretha Franklin, and also you title it. You recognize, LaVern Baker was there by that point. So Ruth Brown wasn’t the one which all the time obtained the great materials.
GROSS: Whenever you grew to become a rhythm and blues star, you toured with a number of the rhythm and blues and rock ‘n’ roll exhibits. And I am questioning should you may give us a style of what it was like for you as a performer to be in these rock ‘n’ roll exhibits.
BROWN: Oh, it was fantastic. However in fact, they got here alongside a bit of later. I feel they began, there was a father and son group out of West Virginia who booked all these exhibits, referred to as the tremendous exhibits. The Weinbergs (ph) had been the promoters, they usually put these exhibits collectively. They’d this sensible concept. And at one time, there have been individuals on the bus just like the Clovers, the Drifters, the 5 Keys, Lester Younger, Buddy Johnson’s orchestra, Ella Johnson. And then you definitely would have, like, a Sam Cooke, you already know? And you’ll have a John Coltrane, and you’ll have Paul “Hucklebuck” Williams and Charles Brown and Roy Brown. And typically there have been about 10 acts on one invoice, and the ticket solely value about $7.50, you already know?
GROSS: So that you’re saying…
BROWN: But it surely was fantastic.
GROSS: Did Lester Younger share the invoice with the Drifters and the Clovers?
BROWN: Oh, in fact. With me. After all.
GROSS: Should’ve been an awfully fascinating bus trip (laughter).
BROWN: It was fascinating, however we had been so younger and naive. I did not understand the greatness of lots of these individuals I used to be working with. I even labored with Joe Louis, the heavyweight champion of the world. Lots of people do not know that, however he went on the street and toured with me and did comedy, you already know?
GROSS: What sort of comedy? Did you…
BROWN: He did simply what it’s he does. He performed the boxer. And he had a bit of man with him named Leonard Reed, who performed his second. He was the one which he was all the time attempting to punch out, you already know? And Joe got here out with us when he misplaced his heavyweight title to Ezzard Charles. He got here on the street and rode the bus with us – Joe Louis, Billy Eckstine, the Rely Basie Orchestra, Nipsey Russell, my expensive pal Redd Foxx. You speak about exhibits. You’ll by no means see something like that…
GROSS: (Laughter).
BROWN: …Once more.
GROSS: We’re listening again to my 1997 interview with Ruth Brown. We’ll hear extra of our dialog after a break. And we’ll hear from one other rhythm and blues star, LaVern Baker. I am Terry Gross and that is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “AS LONG AS I’M MOVING”)
BROWN: (Singing) I wish to go north, east, south, west. Each which means, so long as I am shifting, lengthy as I am shifting. Lengthy as I am shifting, lengthy as I am shifting. Lengthy as I am shifting, child, I do not care. You bought huge broad shoulders constructed like a trailer truck. You bought huge broad shoulders constructed like a trailer truck. Let me run with you, daddy.
(SOUNDBITE OF RAMSEY LEWIS TRIO’S “THE ‘IN’ CROWD”)
GROSS: That is FRESH AIR. I am Terry Gross. Let’s get again to my 1997 interview with rhythm and blues star Ruth Brown. She was one in every of Atlantic’s first hitmakers and recorded over 80 songs for the label between 1949 and ’62. She was inducted into the Rock & Roll Corridor of Fame in 1993.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: Was there ever a degree throughout your grownup life while you could not earn a residing singing and also you needed to do different jobs?
BROWN: Oh, sure. After all.
GROSS: What did you do?
BROWN: After all. I did home work.
GROSS: This was…
BROWN: I drove a faculty bus.
GROSS: You probably did home work after you had had rhythm and blues hits?
BROWN: Oh, certain. This was in the course of the ’60s. That wasn’t too way back. This was in the course of the ’60s, the arrival of The Beatles and the British invasion. And the enterprise grew to become a bit of extra difficult, however that wasn’t actually the explanation I left as a result of I selected. I actually selected. Someplace down the road, it began to kind of ease again ‘trigger I had two fantastic youngsters, and I needed to spend extra time the place they had been. And it went again a couple of years earlier than that that I had ideas of it as a result of my mom used to care for my sons.
And I keep in mind coming dwelling one time to go to. My solely tie to my youngsters had been materials issues – you already know, issues that you could possibly ship cash dwelling for and buy presents. And I got here dwelling, and my oldest, in fact, was jovial and leaping up. However my child – my child, who my mom had chosen for her personal – the one factor she did not do was give him start. That is why she cherished him a lot. After I went to achieve for my child, he did not need me to the touch him, and he screamed and yelled, you already know. And I feel that was in all probability the primary day that I stated to myself, nicely, I obtained to do one thing about this. And that was one of many causes that I lastly determined to return in, so to talk.
However in these occasions, I did many issues. I did home work. I cooked. I labored in day care. I labored within the dwelling for retarded youngsters. I labored in drug abuse as a counselor. I drove a faculty bus. I labored in Head Begin. I labored wherever I may deliver a paycheck dwelling, you already know.
GROSS: Properly, how did you’re feeling after the adulation that you simply’d get on stage cleansing different individuals’s homes?
BROWN: Properly, I did not really feel something about it as a result of what I used to be doing was incomes a residing, a clear, first rate residing. And it was what my mom had accomplished all of her life. So I felt no disgrace about it as a result of I did that with as a lot dignity as I do the rest. I did an excellent job. I used to be an excellent housekeeper, you already know? And it wasn’t till my wants had been of such that I used to be cleansing home someday, and I heard my music. I heard a disc jockey speaking about my greatness and the way nice Ruth Brown was. And at the moment, I feel I used to be scrubbing a flooring. And that’s once I kind of made up my thoughts that there was some cash that belonged to me that I had not been receiving. You recognize, I had not gotten a royalty assertion in virtually 30 years. I hadn’t seen one, you already know? And my data had been being offered all the – overseas. And he was speaking about how huge this was in Japan and in Germany, and I had no concept about this.
So I started this battle – this uphill battle it was – to keep up and reclaim one thing that was actually mine. I refused to beg as a result of I used to be going to battle for – I knew what was mine. You recognize, if these data are being offered, then I am entitled to my a part of no matter they’re being offered for. And I lastly – now, in any case these years, I am getting report royalties again once more for the primary time in lots of, a few years, you already know?
GROSS: You made a comeback within the ’80s with a sequence of music theater revues, together with “Black And Blue.” And I am questioning now how, while you’re acting on stage, the sensation and the viewers evaluate with the sooner a part of your profession within the ’50s.
BROWN: I can’t clarify to you what it is like now. It is type of superior. However the stunning factor is that there are lots of younger faces on the market that are actually changing into conscious of this music that I used to be part of, and lots of them not as a result of they knew my music. However I did one other loopy factor someday. I did a movie referred to as “Hairspray,” and I gained an entire following of latest younger individuals with that loopy film, you already know?
GROSS: It is a terrific film. It is a John Waters film…
BROWN: Sure, ma’am, with Ricki Lake.
GROSS: …About – yeah, with Ricki Lake.
BROWN: Sure.
GROSS: It was her first huge position.
BROWN: Sure, sure.
GROSS: And it is about a kind of dance exhibits in Baltimore…
BROWN: It was a spoof.
GROSS: …Type of like “American Bandstand” however one set in Baltimore.
BROWN: It was an actual present.
GROSS: Yeah.
BROWN: I keep in mind the truth of it. And it was in a time when John Waters was a younger man. He grew up listening to that, and I keep in mind these conditions very, very nicely. And I had stated, nicely, I am not going to do that movie. Particularly once they took me to wardrobe and introduced that white wig out, I stated…
GROSS: (Laughter).
BROWN: …Not in your life, you already know? However, in fact, it was the – oh, I can not name his title. He died.
GROSS: Divine.
BROWN: Divine. Divine. I name him the divine Divine. He got here to me and stated, woman, put that wig in your head and make some cash (laughter). And I stated to him, no, I will lose each fan I’ve obtained on the planet if I come out with this white wig. And Divine stated, nicely, I will let you know what. For each one you lose, I will deliver you two. And each time I see that movie, and it runs constantly, and I’ve gone into grocery shops and see younger individuals following me round, my ego says, oh, they know who I’m – Ruth Brown – that type of factor. After which they are going to finally say, aren’t you Motormouth Maybelle (laughter)?
GROSS: That was your position within the film, yeah.
BROWN: That was my position and continues to be my declare to fame, you already know. That cult movie has actually been fantastic. I all the time – I am going to the mailbox very often now and discover a bit of examine with John Waters – God bless him – on it. And he writes to me and ship me loopy Christmas playing cards and issues till at the present time.
GROSS: I would really like you, Ruth Brown, to decide on – you probably have one – your favourite of your early recordings, and we’ll play that.
BROWN: Oh, there are such a lot of that had been good. However I feel if I had to decide on one, it could in all probability be, at this level in my life, “Oh What A Dream.”
GROSS: And why are you selecting that one?
BROWN: As a result of this complete life has been a dream. I let you know…
GROSS: (Laughter).
BROWN: …After I look again at it, I can not imagine a number of the issues that did occur. And once I look again on it now, it is – I do not know. It looks as if a dream. That is what it’s, you already know?
GROSS: Properly, let’s hear your 1954 recording, “Oh What A Dream.”
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “OH WHAT A DREAM”)
BROWN: (Singing) Wakened this morning, and I regarded round. So disenchanted, I laid again down. Oh, what a dream, what a dream I had final evening. Dreamed I held you in my arms. However I am nonetheless ready for that day to return. Oh, what a dream, what a dream I had final evening. Dreamed we had been strolling down the aisle. The organ was enjoying right here comes the bride. You regarded down at me. You started to smile. After I regarded round, everyone started to cry. I opened my eyes. You were not there.
GROSS: That is Ruth Brown recorded in 1954. Properly, Ruth Brown, I wish to thanks very a lot for speaking with us.
BROWN: Properly, thanks, Terry. I’ve accomplished all of the speaking, you see.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: I all the time warn individuals, you already know? I say, at any time when I get an opportunity to be interviewed, do not ever say inform me one thing about your self, ‘trigger honey, I obtained about 60 years right here to speak about.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: However you have been very form.
GROSS: And I’ve loved listening to your story.
BROWN: Thanks.
GROSS: And thanks very, very a lot.
Ruth Brown recorded in 1997. She died in 2006 on the age of 78. In 2016, Brown acquired a Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award.
Arising, we discuss with one other rhythm and blues star, singer LaVern Baker. That is FRESH AIR
(SOUNDBITE OF RAY CHARLES’ “DAWN RAY”)
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