DAVE DAVIES, HOST:
That is FRESH AIR. I am Dave Davies. David Johansen, a founding member of the legendary Seventies band, the New York Dolls, died final week. He was 75. The New York Dolls by no means offered many data, however the band had lasting affect, paving the way in which for punk rock. He additionally carried out in his persona, Buster Poindexter, a pompadour-wearing lounge lizard. And he performed the blues together with his band, David Johansen and the Harry Smiths. Johansen was the topic of a 2022 Showtime documentary, co-directed by Martin Scorsese and David Tedeschi, referred to as “Persona Disaster: One Night time Solely.”
A lot of the documentary is constructed round Johansen’s 2020 efficiency as Buster Poindexter on the Cafe Carlyle in New York Metropolis. The movie additionally featured newly found and archival interviews with him and others. This is a clip from the documentary with English singer and songwriter Morrissey. He says he was obsessive about the New York Dolls as a youngster as a result of they introduced a way of hazard to rock. Their music was loud and tough, however greater than that.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, “PERSONALITY CRISIS: ONE NIGHT ONLY”)
MORRISSEY: So right here have been boys who have been calling themselves dolls, and so they regarded like prostitutes, male prostitutes, which on the time – you must bear in mind, it was a very long time in the past, and all of that form of factor was actually taboo.
DAVIES: English Singer Morrissey from the Showtime documentary in regards to the New York Dolls. Terry Gross spoke to David Johansen in 2004. The surviving members of the band had simply reunited at Morrissey’s request for a competition in England. Their efficiency was recorded on a CD and DVD titled “The Return Of The New York Dolls – Dwell From Royal Pageant Corridor.” Terry’s interview begins with a monitor from the album referred to as “Trying For A Kiss.” The Dolls used to play this one within the Seventies. It was written by David Johansen, who additionally sings lead.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “LOOKING FOR A KISS”)
NEW YORK DOLLS: Once I say I am in love, you greatest imagine I am in love, L-U-V. (Singing) I all the time noticed you simply earlier than the daybreak. All the opposite youngsters have been simply dragging alongside. I could not imagine the way in which you gave the impression to be. Remembering the stuff you used to say to me. However I do know I can not be losing time ‘trigger I gotta have my enjoyable. I gotta get some enjoyable. I gotta carry on shifting, I can not cease until it is all accomplished. It is by no means accomplished. Hear once I inform you obtained no time for this, I simply gotta make it. Cannot afford to overlook. If there’s one cause I am telling you this, I really feel unhealthy, I have been in search of a kiss.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
TERRY GROSS: So if you have been on stage, you understand, with the reunited and the brand new model of The Dolls and also you have been doing the outdated Dolls songs, did you may have any, like, flashbacks to issues that you simply had completely forgotten about? Like, did recollections, like, floor of issues that have been actually fascinating, that you simply had utterly forgotten about till you have been again in that setting once more?
DAVID JOHANSEN: Effectively, I’ve recollections, however, God, they’re imprecise, you understand? (Laughter) I bear in mind the primary time we made a report with Todd Rundgren, and the one factor I bear in mind is the lights on the management board. I assumed they have been actually fairly.
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHANSEN: And that is actually the one reminiscence I’ve of creating…
GROSS: Any historian would need to know all about that (laughter).
JOHANSEN: …Of constructing that first report. That is – you understand, folks assume I am kidding once they ask, effectively, what was it like making that first report? As a result of, you understand, it form of turned this benchmark form of report. However that is actually the one reminiscence I’ve of it. However, you understand, the factor that struck me was I needed to form of sit down and hearken to the music and write the phrases down and be taught them. And I assumed…
GROSS: Oh, you needed to relearn your personal songs?
JOHANSEN: Yeah, as a result of, you understand, I hadn’t sang – sung them in God is aware of how lengthy, you understand. I imply, it wasn’t like I needed to relearn them from scratch as a result of they form of come again to you, however I needed to have some form of factor to have a look at. And, you understand, I discover that once I write one thing, it goes into my head higher than if I simply attempt to memorize it. So I used to be writing, for instance, like, “Human Being” and I used to be considering, God, how did I write that track? That is nice.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHANSEN: I imply, it actually holds up. You understand, it is form of like a declaration that, I believe, is timeless. So there’s numerous stuff like that within the songs which – let me clarify one thing to you. There was a time, you understand, once we began The Dolls, and we have been actually such a gang, and it was like us towards the world, and we have been actually making an attempt to evolve music into one thing new, and it was, you understand, very form of virtually militant to us. After which through the years, you understand, within the historical past books, you understand, just like the “Rolling Stone Full Encyclopedia of Rock & Roll,” or one thing, you understand, you look within the appendix and see the place your identify is and see what they are saying about you. It is not such as you purchase the e-book.
And they’d all the time say, you understand, they have been trashy, they have been flashy, they have been drug addicts, they have been drag queens, you understand? And that entire form of trashy blah, blah, blah factor. I believe, through the years form of settled in my thoughts as, oh yeah, that is what it was, you understand? After which by going again to it and deconstructing it after which placing it again collectively once more, I noticed that, you understand, it truly is artwork and that some critic at one time had provide you with this catch-all phrase that, as you understand, as soon as any person says it, then all people simply seems it up and so they say it as a result of no person does…
GROSS: Proper.
JOHANSEN: …No person has an authentic concept.
GROSS: Despite the truth that you do not bear in mind a complete lot about elements of the early days of the Dolls, do you bear in mind writing a track, “Persona Disaster”?
JOHANSEN: Effectively, you understand, I do not bear in mind precisely sitting down and writing the phrases, however I bear in mind the place I obtained the identify as a result of I used to be form of like an acolyte in Charles Ludlam’s Ridiculous Theatre once I was a child. That is once I was, you understand, 17, 18, 19. And Charles…
GROSS: And let’s simply describe what Charles Ludlam’s Theatre was. He used to decorate in drag so much because the main girl in these, like, Greta Garbo form of roles. And…
JOHANSEN: Yeah, nevertheless it was a lot greater than that.
GROSS: Yeah.
JOHANSEN: It was actually very clever stuff that he used to do. And he used to mix numerous genres of, you understand, classical playwriting in, you understand, like Moliere, he would put in with one thing kitschy that was current, you understand, present-day stuff and he would put – he would make this melange of concepts that have been simply so – they’d come out so authentic and sensible that – you understand, folks throw the phrase genius round, however he was truly a genius. He was probably the most clever folks I believe I’ve ever met. However I believe in the future we have been at a rehearsal or one thing, and he simply stated, oh, God, I am having a persona disaster, and I simply thought…
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHANSEN: …Oh, that is actually good, and I wrote it down, you understand, “Persona Disaster.” And that is actually all I bear in mind about writing the track, and the track got here from that.
GROSS: Effectively, why do not we hear “Persona Disaster” as carried out by the New York Dolls on the Meltdown competition over the summer time? So that is from “The Return of The New York Dolls.”
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “PERSONALITY CRISIS”)
NEW YORK DOLLS: (Singing) Whoa. Yow (ph). Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, child, no. No, child, yeah. Yeah, no, no, yeah, no. You are my sister. I am your mom. We will not take it this week. Her associates don’t need one other speech. Hoping for a greater day to listen to what she’s obtained to say. All about that persona disaster. You bought it whereas it was sizzling. Come on. Frustration and heartache is what you bought. Whatcha obtained? Persona. Persona.
DAVIES: That is the New York Dolls. We’re listening to Terry’s 2004 interview with David Johansen, who co-founded the band within the Seventies. He died final week. We’ll hear extra after a break. That is FRESH AIR. That is FRESH AIR. Let’s get again to Terry’s 2004 interview with David Johansen, who cofounded the band the New York Dolls. They spoke when the band reunited for a competition in England. Johansen died final week on the age of 75. He was the topic of a documentary on Showtime codirected by Martin Scorsese.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
GROSS: Within the liner notes for the DVD and the CD. You write about Arthur Kane. This was his final efficiency. He was the bass participant of the band. And it was Arthur Kane who knocked in your door and recruited you to be within the Dolls when the band was being shaped. He died just some weeks after the live performance. Did you even know he was sick?
JOHANSEN: No, and neither did he. You understand, he had had this unbelievable life, Arthur. And he was simply this actually sensible man who had this unbelievable perception into actuality that was – (laughter) it was only one step to the left of in all probability essentially the most radical folks I had ever met at that time. And I do not even imply, you understand, politics. I simply imply the way in which he noticed issues. And so they have been all the time spot on, and he was simply so sensible to me. After which he form of – he had come from this household that was simply, like, hell on Earth. And he obtained a style for the booze and went by means of, like, numerous years of simply being drunk on a regular basis. And I bear in mind he obtained so far the place you’ll simply say, hello, Creator, and he would simply say, woof. His solely phrase turned woof.
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHANSEN: Anyway, he went by means of all these things – I imply, I can not start to inform you – in his life. He fell out a window, he did this, he obtained hit by a automotive. He did this. He did that. After which he got here out the opposite aspect, and he obtained concerned with, like, you understand, the Mormons and have become the librarian on the household historical past workplace on the Mormon tabernacle. And so he was, like, this Mormon however with this actually form of demented outlook on life that – so he wasn’t, you understand, like a proselytizer. However he simply was so great. And…
GROSS: Effectively let’s…
JOHANSEN: (Imitating Arthur Kane) He had this very excessive voice. And he was 6’5 or one thing.
GROSS: Let’s discuss how he did recruit you for the band. He knocked in your door, your residence in Manhattan. You have been, what, round 19 or one thing?
JOHANSEN: Yeah.
GROSS: What did he inform you about this new band?
JOHANSEN: Effectively, there was a man who lived in my constructing who I used to form of, you understand, jam with and strum guitars. And he was this Colombian man who performed bongos, and we used to simply sit round and play music. And he knew Billy Murcia, who was the unique drummer within the Dolls, and advised these guys who have been in search of a singer that I used to be a singer, and he thought I used to be a fairly good singer. And so in the future, Arthur was simply at my door with Billy. And Arthur was about three ft taller than Billy. And he simply stated, (imitating Arthur Kane) I hear you are a singer.
And I stated, yeah, and I invited them in. And we began speaking. And so they stated that they had a band, and so they have been in search of a singer. And I used to be in search of a band. And we simply – actually, that day, truly, we left my residence and went, like, 4 blocks up the road to Johnny Thunders’ residence, the place there have been some drums and guitars and stuff, and began to play. And we have been a band, basically.
GROSS: What have been a few of the issues that you simply knew you did not need to be about, the form of music that you simply thought had dead-ended?
JOHANSEN: Oh, you understand, at the moment, there was, like, these interminable drum solos. And you understand what occurs when the drum solo stops. It is the worst. Then the bass takes a solo.
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHANSEN: And stuff like that, you understand? And we simply wished to form of have some actually wham bam songs. And, I imply, for me, the entire thing was like, if you must evaluate it to one thing, like a Little Richard form of presentation. And I can bear in mind once I was actually younger and I’d go to the Murray the Okay exhibits, you understand, and I noticed Mitch Ryder. And, you understand, these exhibits had 30 acts, and all people would come out and do two or three minutes. And Mitch Ryder would come out and do a medley of his three large hits. He would come out in form of, like, a tuxedo, and inside 45 seconds, he was half bare and sweating like a pig.
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHANSEN: And we simply wished to make an explosion, you understand, of pleasure. So that is what was lacking. You understand, rock ‘n’ roll had turn into very form of pedantic and meandering, and it was in search of one thing, nevertheless it was like an actor searching for a play or one thing, you understand?
GROSS: Now, on the album cowl of the album “The New York Dolls,” you are all wearing this type of trashy drag with numerous eye make-up and lipstick. You are carrying a bouffant wig. I assume it is a wig (laughter).
JOHANSEN: No, it wasn’t a wig.
GROSS: It wasn’t a wig?
JOHANSEN: No.
GROSS: You teased your hair for it? As a result of it’s extremely bouffant.
JOHANSEN: Yeah. Effectively, any person teased it. I did not tease it.
GROSS: Someone teased it, proper.
JOHANSEN: Yeah.
GROSS: And also you’re carrying what seems like capri pants and high-heeled clogs, an open cardigan revealing your naked chest. And also you’re gazing your self within the mirror of a make-up compact.
JOHANSEN: Proper.
GROSS: And the band’s identify is written in lipstick.
JOHANSEN: Proper.
GROSS: For these of us who did not get to see you onstage, how did that evaluate with the way you truly regarded onstage?
JOHANSEN: Effectively, that was in all probability, you understand, I imply – I believe, you understand, to the typical civilian, it in all probability did not look any totally different. However to us, we have been, like, dressing up a little bit bit extra, make it a little bit particular for the…
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHANSEN: For the report cowl, you understand? You understand, Sylvain was within the rag commerce with Billy. That they had this little sweater firm referred to as – effectively, they offered it to this firm referred to as Reality and Soul. They used to make these poor boy sweaters. That they had a loom. And thru that, they knew lots of people who truly are very form of well-known designers now however who have been simply getting began. And I believe it was, like, Betsey Johnson and these girls that she used to work with. That they had a retailer on St. Mark’s Place, and so they knew a photographer, and so they knew a make-up man, and so they knew this and that. You understand, we did not know something about that. So I believe they helped to facilitate that picture session.
GROSS: What impressed your curiosity in or willingness to be in a form of drag for performances? I imply, you talked about you had been with Charles Ludlam’s Ridiculous theater. And drag was usually part of their performances in theater. So the place did you see it becoming into your music?
JOHANSEN: Effectively, you understand, we have been – you understand, the hotbed of revolution at the moment was, you understand, St. Mark’s Place and Second Avenue. And thru that, you understand, there have been so many artists there and, you understand, actors and individuals who have been doing these performs, just like the Ridiculous folks. And there was, you understand, filmmakers and poets and painters. And we have been the band of that crowd. I imply, it wasn’t like we have been the band of even New York Metropolis, you understand? We have been the band, mainly, of the East Village, you understand?
And it wasn’t a lot like a sexual factor as a result of, you understand, like, sexuality refers to, like, organic points. It was extra like a gender factor, you understand? And gender is, like, you understand, like, the cultural variations that develop up across the organic variations. So as a substitute of, like, female and male, like, gender is absolutely masculine and female, proper? I believe the trick for us on the time was to determine which traits have been intercourse and which have been gender, you understand? And, you understand, as a result of there’s sure issues males do, and there is sure issues females do. I imply, the universe did not make two sexes for nothing.
GROSS: Did lots of people early on assume that you simply have been homosexual due to the way in which you wearing efficiency or due to the?
JOHANSEN: I do not know. I do not know. I imply, it was apparent we weren’t homosexual. I imply, you understand…
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHANSEN: However possibly to some folks it was, you understand? You understand, how some folks – I imply, to some folks, all people’s homosexual, you understand (laughter)? Like, you can say, like – you can be speaking to any person and go, oh, that Hitler. And so they go, homosexual, you understand? So, I imply…
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHANSEN: Some folks simply assume all people’s homosexual. However I do not know. We have been, like, these form of avenue youngsters from, you understand, from St. Mark’s Place, you understand? And we simply had this concept that, you understand, on the time, masculine meant robust and assertive. Female meant weak and demure. And this was a time of, like, redefinition of the roles, you understand? It was overdue. And it was simply a part of evolution, I believe, you understand? And all the pieces form of transcends and goes past what went earlier than. And in any other case, what’s using doing something, you understand?
DAVIES: David Johansen, cofounder of the Seventies band of the New York Dolls, talking with Terry Gross in 2004. He died final week on the age of 75. Johansen is the topic of a 2022 documentary codirected by Martin Scorsese on Showtime titled “Persona Disaster: One Night time Solely.” Later, movie critic Justin Chang evaluations “Mickey 17,” a futuristic motion comedy by Bong Joon Ho staring Robert Pattinson. This is David Johansen performing in his lounge lizard persona Buster Poindexter from the documentary. We’ll proceed our dialog after a break. I am Dave Davies, and that is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, “PERSONALITY CRISIS: ONE NIGHT ONLY”)
JOHANSEN: (As Buster Poindexter, singing) I awakened late in the future and turned on my TV. They stated that they had taken over once I was asleep. Effectively, they have been breaking down doorways. They have been purging and burning folks similar to me. Effectively, I mounted a drink. I switched across the channels, however that was all I may see. Effectively, it is such a boring feeling if you discover that you have fallen to a totalitarian state. You do not know what’s left, nevertheless it do not appear proper. You simply do not feel so nice. Hen within the timber have been all tenting. And the Mexicans was laughing down on the detention middle. They did not appear to care that they have been there. I could not discover one dissenter. I did not really feel communal. I used to be intramural cattle. I could not see it getting any higher. I could not name nobody. I want I had a gun. I could not even ship a letter. Oh, it is such a boring feeling if you discover that you have fallen to a totalitarian state. Yeah. You do not know what’s left. It do not appear proper. You simply do not feel so nice. Once they got here to get me, I might hoped they’d forgive me. I attempted taking part in lifeless. I completed my drink, assessed the scenario, put the covers up over my head. I stop.
DAVIES: That is FRESH AIR. I am Dave Davies. Let’s get again to Terry’s interview with David Johansen. In 1971, he cofounded the glam rock band the New York Dolls. The band by no means offered many data, nevertheless it’s turn into one thing of a legend, partly for setting the stage for the punk rock motion. Johansen later carried out within the persona of lounge singer Buster Poindexter. He is the topic of a 2022 Showtime documentary, codirected by Martin Scorsese and David Tedeschi, titled “Persona Disaster: One Night time Solely.” When Terry spoke with him in 2004, the surviving members of the band had reunited for a competition in England. Their efficiency was recorded on the CD “The Return Of The New York Dolls: Dwell From Royal Pageant Corridor.”
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
GROSS: The band was so – initially so used to acting at – like, in Manhattan, within the Village, the place folks, like, knew the band. The individuals who got here have been a part of the identical, like, arts subculture that the band…
JOHANSEN: Proper.
GROSS: …Was part of. However if you went on the highway in America, did you begin taking part in in locations the place folks weren’t kindred spirits in the identical manner, and so they did not essentially get what you have been doing and did not know the way to react to it?
JOHANSEN: Sure and no. I imply, it’s extremely fascinating. Like, you understand, there have been, like, Rust Belt locations, you understand, like Detroit and Cleveland and locations like that. Folks would go loopy for us, and they might come to the exhibits all dressed up, you understand, in Chicago. And, you understand, we have been actually well-received in Los Angeles and San Francisco. And we used to play so much in Florida, you understand, Miami, and we used to play in Atlanta and be very well-accepted.
After which we used to additionally – you understand, we have been associates with Lynyrd Skynyrd on the time. We have been form of kindred spirits. And we might go on excursions of, like, state gala’s and, like, tertiary markets in Missouri collectively, and we’d have a good time, you understand? I do know in Memphis, I obtained arrested on stage one night time for allegedly – you understand, it was just like the Alice Tully Corridor of Memphis. I imply, it was this good clear room. And there had been articles within the newspaper that we have been coming to Pied Piper all the kids to the top of the world or no matter. And we thought it was humorous once we learn it, however I truly obtained arrested onstage and…
GROSS: What for?
JOHANSEN: …Went to the hoosegow in Memphis, which is – I used to be dressed like Liza Minnelli on the time, so it wasn’t essentially the most enjoyable night time I ever had.
GROSS: (Laughter) How did folks reply to you in jail?
JOHANSEN: In jail?
GROSS: Yeah.
JOHANSEN: I simply, like, hid underneath these, like, Lysol-smelling…
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHANSEN: …Like, military blankets. After which this man awakened, and he went like, oh, rattling, you are David Johansen. And I used to be like, quiet, quiet, quiet. After which he awakened this bear, and the bear was growling, and I used to be like, oh, my God. My knees have been, like, you understand, rattling underneath these covers. However I obtained bailed out at, like, daybreak.
GROSS: What have been the costs?
JOHANSEN: Inciting a riot. The cops – you understand, the cops wished to mess the factor up, and so they began beating on youngsters and – ‘trigger they obtained up and danced. And I ended the music, and I began explaining to this officer that this youngster he was abusing could also be, you understand, the mayor’s child or nephew or one thing and his job could be in jeopardy. After which they only threw me in cuffs and dragged me away for inciting a riot. I could not have used the very same language.
GROSS: Proper. I perceive (laughter). Why did the New York Dolls break up?
JOHANSEN: Inertia. I do not know. You understand, I believe we obtained to some extent the place – I wish to assume, you understand, it was a venture that we completed, however there was, like, factions within the group that have been, you understand, extra interested by medicine than in taking part in music. And it simply form of turned for me – I imply, I can solely converse for myself, you understand? For me, it turned untenable.
GROSS: What did you assume if you noticed the Intercourse Pistols, the Ramones? Your band, the Dolls, preceded punk, nevertheless it was definitely influential on numerous punk bands and had the identical sensibility in numerous methods. So if you noticed that sensibility simply actually turn into so in style, what did you assume?
JOHANSEN: I assumed each new concept begins as heresy and winds up as superstition. (Laughter) I believe – I by no means noticed the Intercourse Pistols, however I noticed the Ramones as a result of they used to rehearse down the corridor from me. I neglect what band – if I used to be within the Dolls or within the – my subsequent band. However I bear in mind Joey Ramone got here to the room I used to be rehearsing in. You understand, they’ve these buildings in New York with 100 bands taking part in directly. It is like – it could drive a monk insane. And he got here by and stated that he wished me to return down the corridor and listen to his band. And I went down the corridor to listen to his band, and I in all probability stated, you understand, you are a pleasant man. Why do not you simply surrender, you understand?
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHANSEN: I advised the Speaking Heads they need to surrender.
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHANSEN: I imply, I’d be the worst A&R man within the historical past of present enterprise as a result of I might inform all these bands who – once they’re starting that, you are a good child. Why do not you get an actual job and a home, you understand? So I do not – what do I do know? I did not assume something about it being influenced by me or something like that. It was simply in all probability I had a headache, and the music was actually loud.
DAVIES: David Johansen, who cofounded the Seventies band the New York Dolls, talking with Terry Gross in 2004. He died final week. He was the final surviving member of the band. We’ll hear extra after a break. That is FRESH AIR. That is FRESH AIR. Let’s get again to Terry’s 2004 interview with David Johansen, who cofounded the band the New York Dolls. They spoke when the band reunited for a competition in England. He died final week on the age of 75. Johansen was the topic of a Showtime documentary, codirected by Martin Scorsese, titled “Persona Disaster: One Night time Solely.”
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
GROSS: I need to skip forward to the ’80s and ’90s if you carried out so much as Buster Poindexter. And, you understand, the New York Dolls have been so right into a form of prepunk sensibility and have been very excessive vitality and really uncooked. And, you understand, Buster Poindexter is rather more of a form of lounge, extra Vegas-oriented form of persona. You understand, as a substitute of in drag on the duvet, you understand, the Buster Poindexter character is in a tuxedo and…
JOHANSEN: It is all drag, Terry.
GROSS: Effectively, that is the factor. No, no, however that is precisely the factor. I…
JOHANSEN: No, I imply, Birkenstocks are drag.
GROSS: Precisely.
JOHANSEN: You understand what I am saying?
GROSS: Yeah, precisely.
JOHANSEN: Everyone seems to be – like, all people is saying one thing with their garments, you understand? So…
GROSS: So have you ever all the time felt such as you have been standing again and figuring out that any form of drag that you simply have been placing on, any form of outfit or no matter you have been placing on for a efficiency was all the time that – that you simply all the time knew it was some form of drag or one other?
JOHANSEN: Yeah. Yeah, you understand, the factor with Poindexter is we – there was a little bit membership, like a saloon, an Irish bar across the nook from my home. I used to be dwelling in Gramercy Park. It was two blocks from my home, and it was form of like my watering gap. And they’d have bands there like Joe Turner or Charles Brown or Massive Maybelle, and they might do residencies there. So they’d play, like, three or 4 nights every week for a month, say. You understand, and there was a room upstairs the place they’d reside.
Monday night time the backroom was darkish, so I had determined I used to be going to do that little, like, highway – barrelhouse form of roadhouse present, the place I may simply sing no matter songs I wished to sing, and I used to be going to do it for 4 Mondays. And I went in there, and I figured I might use a pseudonym so folks would not be coming in screaming for, you understand, (impersonating crowd shouting) “Funky However Stylish.”
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHANSEN: So I went in to try this, and I simply picked no matter songs. I had been listening to numerous bounce blues on the time, however I additionally did, you understand, like, “The Seven Lethal Virtues” from “Camelot,” and, you understand, no matter – simply no matter songs I wished to sing. And by the top of 4 weeks, I began doing weekends, and it simply form of organically constructed into this – it began out as a three-piece band and wound up as, like, a 15-piece band. So I believe by the point it obtained to the nationwide consciousness, it did have this type of Vegas-y (ph) form of concept to it, nevertheless it began off extra form of just like the Louis Prima days within the ’50s of Vegas. You understand what I am saying?
GROSS: Proper, proper, proper. Effectively, that picture was inspired. Like, on the duvet of the Buster Poindexter album, you are ingesting a martini…
JOHANSEN: Proper.
GROSS: …In a tuxedo together with your pinkie ring (laughter).
JOHANSEN: After which I used to be again on…
GROSS: Yeah.
JOHANSEN: See, I used to be strolling to work. I used to be making a pleasant dwelling, after which we had a success, and, you understand, all went to hell as a result of we had to return on the highway.
GROSS: Proper.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: I need to play one thing from the Buster Poindexter period and…
JOHANSEN: Do not play “Sizzling Sizzling Sizzling.”
GROSS: No, no, I wasn’t going to. I used to be going to play…
JOHANSEN: Thank God.
GROSS: (Laughter) You are actually uninterested in it?
JOHANSEN: It is the bane of my life.
GROSS: Oh. I used to be going to play “Dangerous Boy.”
JOHANSEN: OK.
GROSS: Inform me why you recorded this. It is a cowl.
JOHANSEN: Effectively, I do not know. It is only a good track. It was written by Lil Armstrong, and I all the time appreciated it ever since I used to be a child.
GROSS: Yeah. OK, effectively, let’s hear it. That is from the “Buster Poindexter” album.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “BAD BOY”)
JOHANSEN: (Singing) Dangerous boy, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, all dressed up in fancy garments. I’ve taken the difficulty to vary my night time into day. You understand that outdated sizzling, blazing solar? He ain’t going to harm my head ‘trigger you understand he’ll discover me proper there within the shade. I can see all the parents – I can see all of them – ha-ha – laughing at me ‘trigger I am simply naturally loopy, lazy. Dangerous boy…
GROSS: That is “Dangerous Boy” from David Johansen’s album “Buster Poindexter.” David Johansen is my visitor, and his first band, the New York Dolls, has a reunion live performance that was simply launched on CD and DVD.
It appears to me that you have had so many alternative characters you’ve got inhabited as a performer. And I am questioning how a lot you assume your profession as an actor has come into play in your profession as a musician, you understand, as a result of earlier than you have been even within the New York Dolls, you have been with the Ridiculous Theater Firm in New York. And through the years, you’ve got been in, you understand, numerous motion pictures as effectively.
JOHANSEN: Yeah. I assume, you understand, there’s numerous form of performing concerned. I – you understand, I’ve this pal – Elliott Murphy, who’s a singer. He lives in Paris now. And I bear in mind once I began doing Buster Poindexter, he used to say to me, David, you understand, Buster Poindexter is a lot extra such as you than David Johansen is, you understand, if you happen to get what I am saying. In different phrases, with Buster, I actually form of went on stage and actually did not edit myself and simply form of stated no matter got here to my thoughts and did not have many filters.
Whereas previous to that, within the interval of my – I assume you’ll name it solo profession, though, you understand, you are all the time in a band, so it is by no means actually a solo profession. However I had the David Johansen Group or band or no matter it was referred to as. And we used to open for lots of bands in hockey rinks, you understand? And also you form of go on the market – at that time, I used to be going on the market and form of presenting this, what I assumed, like, ideally suited image of myself – you understand what I imply? – simply this nice fellow, you understand? Whereas Buster was actually form of extra warts and all, you understand? And I believe by doing that, it helped me to be myself extra, you understand, whereas – so now once I go on stage, I am not, like, biting my nails, like, oh, what am I going to do? What are we – how am I going to be? Blah, blah, blah. I simply do not even give it some thought as a result of I am simply going to go on the market and basically be whoever I’m at that second. You understand what I am saying?
GROSS: Yeah. You as soon as stated, again within the Buster Poindexter period, Buster can have this nice life within the public eye and take the rap for all the pieces, after which David can go house.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHANSEN: Precisely. You understand, it is humorous as a result of my mom – when Buster got here out, she stated, you understand, that is essentially the most genius concept you’ve got ever provide you with.
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHANSEN: That is nice. And I believe that was her concept that, you understand, Buster can take the rap. And politicians ought to do it.
GROSS: Now, you may have a present on Sirius, which is likely one of the satellite tv for pc radio stations.
JOHANSEN: Oh, yeah.
GROSS: Who’re you as a DJ? Are you simply your self, or do you may have a…
JOHANSEN: I’ve a present referred to as the “Mansion Of Enjoyable.”
GROSS: Uh-huh.
JOHANSEN: And I am form of like Sri Rama Poindexter Johansen.
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHANSEN: And I am very taken with Sri Ramakrishna recently as a result of I learn a biography of his and thought, man, that man knew the way to reside. And he referred to as the planet the mansion of enjoyable, so I named my present after that. And I play a extremely various bunch of music. You understand, I play salsa, opera, blues, rock ‘n’ roll, you understand, you identify it. I play numerous Nino Rota music. I play, you understand, no matter tickles my fancy. So it is actually utterly free type. And I converse numerous form of Ken Wilber-type forward-thinking philosophy.
GROSS: Effectively, David Johansen, nice to speak with you. Thanks a lot.
JOHANSEN: Thanks, Terry.
DAVIES: David Johansen, co-founder of the Seventies band the New York Dolls, talking with Terry Gross in 2004. He died final week. He was 75. He was the topic of a Showtime documentary, codirected by Martin Scorsese, titled “Persona Disaster: One Night time Solely.” This is David Johansen performing in his lounge lizard persona, Buster Poindexter, from that documentary.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, “PERSONALITY CRISIS: ONE NIGHT ONLY”)
JOHANSEN: Tonight, I’ll do songs that I wrote or cowrote I assume from once I was a youngster all the way in which to this point. And the one factor I may say, the unifying factor of my existence is that there is all the time been loads of music.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “PLENTY OF MUSIC”)
JOHANSEN: (Singing) Feeling an important disappointment in the present day. I do not need to shush it or shoo it away. It belongs to the entire world, the girls and boys. It ain’t simply mine. Like pleasure and love, it is all the time there. I do not understand how I tune in or why that I care, however I can not fake it do not feel like the top and all the pieces is ok. I really feel exiled from the divine. Me and these unhappy associates of mine, we’re simply ready down right here, ingesting beer and shedding time. Effectively, I hear loads of music. I see superfluous magnificence in all places. Why ought to I care? What does it matter to me? The parable of life is a track. Yeah, and nature, too. That is a track.
DAVIES: Arising, movie critic Justin Chang evaluations “Mickey 17,” the brand new movie by Bong Joon-ho. That is FRESH AIR.
Copyright © 2025 NPR. All rights reserved. Go to our web site phrases of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for additional data.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This textual content will not be in its closing type and could also be up to date or revised sooner or later. Accuracy and availability might range. The authoritative report of NPR’s programming is the audio report.
